Timeline of Relationships - YLAM240023

SPEAKER A This programme presents ways to optimise health and wellbeing when considering lifestyle changes. Please consult with your health care provider to ensure they are suitable for you. SPEAKER B Hello and welcome. I'm Kaysie Vokurka. Relationships are a part of our lives before we are even born. They grow and change as we grow and change, developing in various ways through the years. Relationships weave throughout the timeline of our lives, but they have a deeper link to time than you might first think. Stay tuned to find out more. This is your lifestyle as medicine, a production of 3ABN Australia television. It's so good to have you with us as we learn more about how you can shape your lifestyle as medicine. Today we'll be talking more about the topic of relationships and how they relate to time. We have health psychologist Jenifer Skues with us once more. Welcome to the programme, Jenifer, thank you for joining us. SPEAKER B Thank you. SPEAKER A Glad to have you with us. And last time we talked about how we can have healthy, dynamic relationships and we also talked about different ways that we can have a breakdown of those relationships. But today we are bringing in a time element. Can you talk to us a bit about that? Like, I'm curious about where this is going. SPEAKER B Okay. Well, when you look at the time element of relationships, it starts in the womb and it goes right through our lifetime. Relationships are always changing, growing. The foundation is set very early in life and I find when we understand that past process, it gives us insight. So looking at the past, present and future, it's a model that I've developed over time based on the work I did at a psychiatric hospital, where relationships were a problem. And I used to give these presentations. And when I explored it, this was the model came up. And it's also what I call a very biblical model because it does give us these dynamics. But we're always in the present. We have a past, we have a future, but we're always in the present. And when you look at a model like this, where is God? He's in the present, he knows the past, he knows the future. But it's in the present that we have to connect. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER B And last time, yeah, we talked about connecting with God first through Christ and the Holy Spirit, having it in the heart, and then we can connect with ourself in a loving way and with others in a loving way. So this is looking at what stops us from doing that. Why do we get caught up in ourselves? We've only got self other than our focus on God, if that makes sense. So it's important in that model and we're going to look at two aspects of it. The first one is looking at what is our past. When we look at conception to birth, what does that really mean? So when we are conceived, the parental relationship that conceived is vital in that relationship. So if they were like, I hear of people who were born to a single mother because the father didn't want to know. I've heard of families where the parents were at war with each other, and there was a lot of abuse and trauma. And then I've heard, of course, of such loving parents who desperately wanted children and loved them from the conception through. So there are varying aspects of our past, and if we have a healthy past, we have a healthier present. Okay, so this is where that. And I did things like, I spoke to my mother on that. What was it like when I was born? What was it like for her? Because we had a very loving but dysfunctional family. And what she shared with me helped me to really understand what it was all about, why I was like I was in the present, and what the dynamics when she was carrying me, when she had me between myself and my sister and her and my mother and father, there were lots of poor dynamics there. So it helped me to understand some of what I go through now. Okay, so the parental relationships are vital. SPEAKER A Well, so they have a very strong influence on who they become as people, don't they? SPEAKER B Yes, they do. Absolutely. So if you have a look at our models, which is the next point I've got there, because once we're born, we have models even in the hospital, where there's nurses and doctors and visitors and siblings and all these different people around us. When you think of coming out of a protected, warm water environment into a world that in itself, having birth and giving birth is traumatic. So that is where that bonding with the mother and the family is crucial to help the child come into the world. SPEAKER A Yeah. Wow. SPEAKER B And if that bonding isn't there, then it's a major problem. And I get that from adults who come to see me, and they've been adopted or had a foster family or. And it's not all bad. Some of them have had loving families, but usually, if they're loving families and raised them up and give them good schools, they don't need to see me. So I usually hear all the worst scenarios, so to speak, when you look at that. So our models are vital, our relationship experiences along the way. And if we're feeling vulnerable, rejected, abandoned, insecure, that is the platform for the relationship experience we'll have along the way, because we then interpret relationships as we're growing up, as we look for everything that is negative. So instead of accepting the positives in a person, we look to the negatives. They don't like us because. Because we're insecure and fearing abandonment. So what we experience is very powerful. Okay. And then on top of that is the last point. There are learned beliefs and values about relationships generally. And where do we get those beliefs from, do you think? Kaysie, what do you think? Where did you get your beliefs and values about relationships from? Certainly from early years. But as you were growing up, where did you learn about relationships? SPEAKER A Well, I guess it starts with what the child is first experiencing, doesn't it? So there's the parental influence, then you've got the models you talked about. Children are like sponges. They're very much taking in everything and learning from their environment and what around them. SPEAKER B Yeah, their biggest learning curve is in the first seven years because that's when they walk and talk and do all those things. But this is where play is a vital, essential part of a child's developing relationships, playing with others, family, peers, because it's, as I say, it's in the sandpit where we learn to give and take and do all these things. And if a child doesn't have that opportunity and doesn't have a healthy play life as they're growing up, particularly those early years or having toys and tactile things, but nowadays, with media and tv, kids are brought up on. I find a lot of children, even at a very young age, have a mum's phone or a phone with games on it or going. Nowadays, the children go onto tvs, media, and they're learning things and seeing things at their age they shouldn't be learning, but at the same time, and of course, movies come into it, you know, different movies that are around, but at the same time, when they're in front of a screen, they're not out playing, they're not going out and about and having a healthy life. So you cannot develop healthy relationships on social media. Yeah, you have to experience it. So what you learn about relationships is vital as to our personal connection, interaction, growing up, playing, sharing, learning skills that way creates a healthier upbringing and relationship. So that is very powerful. SPEAKER A So nothing can replace the real thing. Hey, you gotta have that face to face contact and connection. SPEAKER B And I find adults who don't get that often, they can be quite childlike when they're under stress and pressure. They use a lot of that child talk or baby talk, resort to that because they feel more secure. But also adults can learn to play, be playful with other adults or even with your children. I used to play with my nephew and I loved it, but I had a healthy play life, but more on my own because I was in an isolated area. But I found that playing, even as adult, was really fulfilling and uplifting and the child really enjoyed it. Children enjoy parents who are playful with them. So as adults, I get them to go and play. If they've not had that, if they've been brought up without that. SPEAKER A I'm curious, what would you encourage them to do for play? SPEAKER B I've had. I got adults to go. Did you ever have. Go on a swing and have a playground? Oh, no, we weren't allowed to do that for whatever reason. And I get them to go, and particularly if they've got children or young people around them, go and enjoy being in the playground, get on a swing, do those things, participate? Yeah. Just. Just to have. To have that freedom. Or go to the beach and run around the beach in the water and swimming and playing. Yeah. So doing things that are away from the distractions and the set values we have in relationships, because often didn't do those things when they were young. So it's like doing a big catch up. It's like you've got to learn to crawl before you walk principle, if that makes sense. SPEAKER A Yeah, absolutely. That's so fascinating that those things are so important for our relationship. Like, I guess I wouldn't have thought about play being a key thing in relationship development, but there you go. That's so interesting. SPEAKER B But don't you find. And I know you are now married, and don't you find that being playful in the relationship, having fun, having a bit of laughter, doing fun things together, joking around, even the physical play comes into it sometimes for adults? SPEAKER A Well, yes. Humour is part of our relationship every day, so there you go. We do plenty of it. SPEAKER B Play therapy. SPEAKER A Yeah, that's it. SPEAKER B And it's a good dynamic to keep a relationship alive, to have that, because it connects you. Humour connects people. Laughter is the best medicine, so it's a great way to go. So when we look at the present, and because I'm dealing with people with many failed relationships, what's the future going to be like? SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER B And, I mean, another factor I find in our society, Christmas was usually a big deal, a family deal, and even these dysfunctional families, everyone had to go to Christmas Day, everyone had to do something. And I found a lot of my clients would find that quite traumatic. So what was your experience like at those times. And they hate Christmas and often melt down because in the present it's not a good memory and they project it into the future. SPEAKER A Hmm. SPEAKER B Okay. So what we remember and what we do with all that modelling and all that we've learned about relationships are projected at what we expect of ourself and others. SPEAKER A Right. So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the experiences we have in developing relationships from childhood, we will experience elements of that in the present but also tend to project it into future situations or our thoughts about those situations. SPEAKER B Yes. SPEAKER A So it's influencing us throughout the whole lifespan or life period unless we make changes about the past. SPEAKER B Absolutely, yeah. So we can learn in the present from the past. And this is where I did a lot of homework with my parents before they passed away. I spoke to both my mother and father about what was life like for them. And when I look at the dysfunctions in our family, when my parents talked about what life was like for them when they were growing up, I could understand why they became the adults they did and why we learned what we did, it was a repeated pat. So looking at the history, if you can, is very helpful. And if parents aren't around, speaking to relatives, siblings, other people, just to get a bit of an idea, because often we blame parents. It's their fault. I'm like I am. But if you have a look at what they went through, then we can come to terms with it in the present. Which means we then are not projecting those old beliefs and values about them and about ourself. SPEAKER A Yeah. Right. So really we need to be cultivating more awareness of what we're doing in the present as a way to get clues from links to the past that we might need to correct or deal with to have more of a living in the present sort of way of life. SPEAKER B Yes. We can only correct the present. We can't change the past and the future is related to the present. If we present with these dysfunctions and fears and fearing, abandonment, not having healthy relationship experiences, then what are you going to expect in the future? More of the same. And then you isolate and that becomes lonely, depression. You can see where mental health comes into it on that level. And then we project our beliefs and values. Oh, all my relationships have failed, so I'll never have a good relationship. And if you change something, that can change. So that's part of. Okay, what can you change in the present and why have you repeated the pattern? So you learn from the past to not repeat it and then you have a better future. SPEAKER A So I guess in terms of what we're actually doing in the present. We're looking for thoughts and belief patterns. We're looking for habits that we're doing in the present that may need to be addressed, changed and changed. Yeah. SPEAKER B And this, this is the skills then where we're looking at what skills, what communication skills. How do you protect yourself and others? You know, what defences do you have? And that's what we're exploring in the next two sessions as well, to have a look at all of that, because it's important. It's good to do a stock take. Ask yourself questions like, are my relationships fulfilling or unfulfilling? And it's not just marriage. I'm no longer married. My husband passed away. But I've got such great friends that I connect with that my relationships are still fulfilling. And of course, my relationship with God, I've worked on a lot more. And that's so fulfilling that I'm happy with where I'm at in relationships. But I used to be lonely, depressed and miserable for many years, even in marriage. So. And there were reasons for that, but I've got beyond that. I've learned from it. And when you correct it in the present and you look back at the past, it doesn't have the emotional sting it used to because you've healed from the emotions even though you remember the event and it wasn't a good event, but it's not coming back to bring you down in the present sense. SPEAKER A Yeah, for sure. SPEAKER B Yeah. So are your relationships intimate, where you connect to people or distant? Do we embrace people or do we avoid? You know, I get people to become socially phobic because they can't cope with relationships connected or disconnected. And so we can look at those and I get people to write it down. How fulfilling am I? Relationships. And I'm looking at all relationships, or maybe a specific one, the pros and cons. And I get them to do a bit of a stock take and it's amazing what they come up with and what they learn about themselves and why there are problems. Because we don't want to keep repeating the past. It isn't good if it's not working. Let's fix it. SPEAKER A Yes, absolutely. Yeah. That makes sense. SPEAKER B Yes. SPEAKER A So you have a follow up model you explained before? I do. So, yeah. Can we see what that one has? SPEAKER B Okay, so we have another model which is growing healthy relationships over time. Some of that we've talked about. But if you have a look at the past, we have unresolved past relationship trauma. The only place you can actually resolve it in the present. So the choices we make in the here and now are vital as to whether we're going to carry the trauma or whether it's going to be okay. So this is where I work with the person in the present and we can do it. There's so much good material out there in books, in videos, on how to have healthy relationships, because then we deal with the fears of the future once we change in the present. And as I said earlier on, our relationship with God in the present is the only way we can do this, because whereas God, he lives in the present moment, he knows us intimately and he wants us to have an intimate relationship. And that's that heart spirit connection. And when we do that in the present, we can resolve the past, we can heal in the present and then have much better future relationships. It's an unknown. We don't know. I don't know who I'm going to meet next week or in two years time, but I know if I'm functioning well, I will be able to be discerning, I'll be able to connect to people, whoever I meet, whoever I know. So, yeah, so doing a bit of a stock take in the present, that's what I help people to do, is write things down, have a look at quality, some of the things we've talked about. And how is your relationship growing? In other words, is how is it developing? Has there been no change? For example, I have people who come to me who had a very traumatic childhood. They've actually been damaged by that trauma. And trauma constitutes all sorts of abuse. Physical, mental, emotional abuse is traumatic. Spiritual abuse is traumatic. So it doesn't matter what the abuse is, it is highly traumatic. So it comes back to, how can you deal with that? Because you now have the embedded memory which comes out in your emotional drive in the present and the choices we make. So this is where helping them to understand that and realise trauma and abuse doesn't have to affect them their whole life, and then we can grow relationships. But what happens once the initial trauma, if there's some sort of abuse, physical, mental, emotional, sexual, any of it, then we often pick the pattern because that's what we're familiar with. I liken it to having an old shoe that we wear and wear and wear, and it's got holes in it and it's leaking and we've got to put new shoes on. And this is like the new way of relationships. And what happens is they're so uncomfortable, we keep going back to the old shoes. And we pick the pattern, even if it's not a good pattern. That's what we're familiar with and what we know, we don't know healthy, therefore, if we only know unhealthy, that's the pattern we pick until we know differently, until we work it out. SPEAKER A So when you say pick the pattern you're talking about, we will choose to go by our default mode of operating in that situation rather than a new one, unless we understand and intentionally choose the new way. SPEAKER B Yes, absolutely. And that comes back to attitude and our expectations. If the attitude is, well, that's the way I've been all my life, nothing will change. We're going to keep connecting with abuse and trauma. And a good example of that is, like women I've met, and males as well, like women who I've met who've had a relationship, and they keep picking the person that abuses them. And each one, they might have had several marriages, each one gets worse. I've had some women who stay in an abusive marriage and I ask them, they come to me for help and the other person, the partner, doesn't want to know about it. But I asked them, well, why? And they said, well, they must love me because they hit me, they abuse me. So if they didn't love me, they wouldn't do that. So they equate abuse with love. And that's often because the abuser will kiss and make up and then do it again. It's a pattern. It's the family pattern that becomes the pattern of their life until they realise they can change it. And that is quite scary for people in the present because that means they might have to leave relationships, whether they're friendships, work environments or married relationships or family relationships. There are points of time where when they become healthier, they say, I've had enough, I've tried to help them, and that's what we'll be doing in the next two sessions. How can we help ourselves and help others and actually change, positively grow and change? We're going to look at more of that. And when you change and you become healthier, you don't have the fears anymore, you have the confidence to address the issues, or if it's that bad, walk away. So that is what people face. People are in a healthy, happy relationship. They have long, healthy marriages, they constantly show love. And I see that with older couples, even walking down the street hand in hand, doing terms of endearment or the way they look at each other, you know, they're still in a healthy relationship and they're working at it. Every relationship has to be worked at. You're just working at it in the wrong way or the right way. SPEAKER A That's true. SPEAKER B Yeah. So working at it is very powerful and you would do the same. Anyone listening, if they're not working at it, then it's going to stay the same. SPEAKER A Yeah, that's true. I guess that really highlights the importance of having, like a. Just an evaluative process on our relationships in our lives, just to really nod out, you know, are they as healthy as they could be? Could they have room for getting better, improving? That's right. Or, you know, are they really in a bad place? And this has to be a priority to address it. And I appreciate that you acknowledged how that for some people, addressing those relationship challenges can be quite scary because of what it means. Like, that's a real challenge that people would need to work through. So it's not always easy, but it can be very rewarding. SPEAKER B Absolutely. A good example is that people who are lonely because of their marriage or their relationship or their friendships or their families, friends aren't connecting. I've had people say, I'm so lonely. I've got a few friends, but I still feel lonely. And the thing is they won't, you know, if they change it and they change friendships or family dynamics, they fear they'll be all alone, that they will be totally rejected. So they put up with what there is, but it's not quality. See, we want quality in relationships. Relationships, I believe, can change and grow until the day we die, you know, and therefore, it's a good investment. And again, it's not just a married relationship. It's to do. We've got maybe children, grandchildren, friendships. If we don't put effort into it and work at it and show we value the person and we care about them, then those people drift away. People who are very depressed lose a lot of friends because they get sick of hearing all their woes and life's miserable. It's all about themselves. So in the end, these people, these friends don't contact them anymore because they try and help, but they don't know how to really help. Yeah. So that's a good example. So one of the things I do is depress people, start to improve. I say right now, I want you to connect with one of your older best friends that you haven't spoken to. And how would you do that? And what would you do? Can you invite them over for a cup or can you invite them for lunch? So we look at realistic ways of doing that nice. SPEAKER A That's really good to consider it from that perspective, because I think in the last session we noted the verse which talked about how the key for relationships with one another is to. To love them as we would love ourselves. And that involves an outward focus, doesn't it? It involves thinking beyond ourselves to the other person where they're at. In order to be able to get that dynamic to flow really well, there's. SPEAKER B A saying you have to love yourself, warts and all, because we'll never be perfect. So we accept our imperfections and work with them and realise I need to change the way I do that because it's how I. Yeah, it's not done well and put in a more positive way of doing things. SPEAKER A And, Jenifer, I think you have. Is there a couple of quotes that you would like to share just to finish off the spiritual connection? SPEAKER B Yes, there is one. Two Bible verses that I have. The first one is Hebrews 13 eight. A reminder that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He never changes. We change. He doesn't. We can count on him and his love. And two, corinthians 516. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ. Sorry, it's 517. My apologies. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. Old things have passed away or all things have become new. SPEAKER A Yeah, they're lovely. And the way that they are telling us that we can forge forward to a new future, one that has better things for us. So that's very encouraging. Well, thank you so much for sharing that again. I look forward to further discussion on this topic in the next session. Thank you, Jenifer. We've been discussing relationships and time with health psychologist Jenifer Skues. In the next programme, we'll look at relationships and the power they have over us and how we've learned to protect ourselves. This will be a very informative session, so please join us next time. If you have questions or comments about this programme, then contact us on [email protected] dot au and remember to shape your lifestyle as medicine. SPEAKER A You've been listening to Your Lifestyle as Medicine, a production of 3ABN Australia television.