The Power Base of Relationships - 240029

This program presents ways to optimise health and well-being. When considering lifestyle changes, please consult with your health care provider to ensure they are suitable for you. Hello and welcome, I'm Kaysie Vokurka. Much is said today about power plays, power struggles and power dynamics in relationships. Indeed, the power of influence and control we each have in interpersonal relationships and how we use it can have a significant impact on our own well-being and those around us. We will talk more about the power base of relationships next. Stay with us. This is your lifestyle as medicine, a production of 3AB and Australia television. It's great to have you with us on this program where we look at ways that you can shape your lifestyle as medicine. Today, we will learn more about power and control in relationships and joining us is Health Psychologist Jenifer Skues. Welcome, Jenifer and thank you so much for being willing to share with us. Thank you for having me here. I love sharing. Yes, that's true and we are so glad that you do love sharing. Talking about this topic of relationships, relationships are something that really have a significant impact on our emotions. They give us our greatest highs and our lowest lows often can be connected there. I'm just wondering how can we encourage healthy emotions in relationships and what are the factors that actually trigger unhealthy emotions and cause the relationships to spiral? I think understanding emotions is the first factor we need to do. When you have a look at how emotions are programmed is part of the key to the power base of a relationship. Emotions are actually programmed even in the womb. All that part of the brain is developing. Emotions are from the mother. The baby puts in some of those emotions. So how they develop over the years is the power base but they're actually programmed in the five senses. So what you're getting every emotion is attached to an event in sight, sound, touch, taste and smell. Now any of those senses can be a trigger which means when we're in the present and if we talked about emotional maturity if we're not doing well emotionally and we don't have that emotional balance then this means if the senses are triggered and that means whoever we talked about abuse and control in relationships on that timeline so that means if there's someone in the present that looks like sounds like smells like touches like when the abuse occurred it's going to trigger an emotional cascade from the past into the present and we overreact or we shut down. So this is where emotions are the crucial foundation for any power base of a relationship. So we need to understand our emotions, we use them as a barometer and recognize when we're overreacting, when we're loading emotions from the past instead of just blaming the other person or criticizing them or going why don't I like that person? We've all done that, we meet something about that person and it's usually because there's an emotion triggered from the past. So I was learning to be in the present and be aware emotionally within the relationship to be able to grow it and develop it. That's very interesting because you're quite right that sometimes people just aren't in touch with their emotions like they couldn't tell you what they're feeling right now because they're just not aware. But you're saying that it's important to develop that awareness, but also it seems like it would be important to recognize the emotions in others as well because we're talking about this power, the power plays that can happen in relationships and often that is playing on other people's emotions. So there's this recognition of those things happening here, so talk to us a bit more about these power plays happening. Women have a bigger range of emotions, males have a smaller range of emotions, so it's hard sometimes to read emotions in people, particularly if you describe the form of dissociation, we're just not connected emotionally, it's all too hard. Someone who's really been through incredible abuse will often learn to dissociate emotionally because then they don't have to feel. So they can talk about an event but they don't feel it. Whereas in the present we need to have emotions appropriate to what's happening in the present. So that means we need to learn. Emotions are shown in non-verbal, not what the person's doing non-verbally. So if you want to hide your emotions, give a different non-verbal response to what you're feeling. And this is where I find someone who likes to control is very good at doing that. So this is where we learn to work with that emotion and if we can't read the emotions, why don't we've got to read our own emotions? We have to be in touch with us. How am I feeling? Do an emotional check? That person I didn't get on with them, how am I feeling now? I'm feeling I'm feeling rejected by them. Why is that happening? Question it. So healthy people will read the emotion, look at the proportion of it. And if you know you're overreacting, I guarantee it's a past emotion or event that has been difficult or traumatic or painful that we are now loading in. We load it into the present. So it's a way of knowing how am I doing emotionally and the same with other people. You can say something to someone and they come out with an incredible emotional reaction thing, what do I say? Yes. So we've got to read their emotions and this is where the boundaries come in which we'll be looking at in one of our sessions to check out why someone is reacting like that versus us reacting back. Yes, yes that's important isn't it to I guess analyze what is happening and don't be as quick to react yourself in those situations because otherwise the heat will just rise won't it in that sort of situation. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. There are a couple of key elements that you can ask yourself in a relationship. If it's not going well, am I isolated? The person isolating me and we're talking about friendships, partnerships, marital, the whole lot is am I being isolated and that can happen. The other one is my attention monopolized by the person. Are they taking over my attention and I can't give attention to other things. And the other one is does the person claim to be all powerful? In other words, what they say goes and you'll say you don't have a say. Mm-hmm, yeah. If that, yeah. They're all very good questions. Explain to us a little bit more about the one about isolating like what does that mean? Okay, it means if the person is isolating you, for example, they don't like it if you make arrangements with another person or they don't let you have people to visit if you're in living within that environment that they control. This is the control. And that's what emotional abuse is. They make you feel bad, guilty, shameful. Okay. That's how to control people. And this is where parenting, sadly, in the era I came up in, used those techniques to control the child. So they'll be silent, be quiet, not be a nuisance. So that's what the child, we look last session, what the child is fed, what they believe as they grow up dictates then how they are in the present and what emotions they connect to. Right, so it's then the isolating can be the way that it's preventing you from interacting with others outside the family, but also preventing you from connecting within that family environment and getting that emotional support. Yes. And that because the person who's the control or in control of that or reacting or doing it is insecure, as their own emotional pain is fearful, they sense abandonment. So if they don't get full attention, they feel abandoned. So that's when they have to up the control. So I think understanding why people do these things if we understand. And this I find I do with clients when they've come to me and they say marriage has failed or their friendship is on the line, that we look at those factors and have a look at how can you now make sense of it, what happened for you where you lost control, you were being controlled by that person. So then you learn from hindsight, learn from history and you can then move on. So this is where, but it's the emotions that we have to deal with. And if you remember, we talked about childhood and the baby has an emotional brain initially with the Bible brain. And therefore, a lot of emotional loading isn't on the conscious level. People, I don't know, you've done it. Why do I react like that? Yes. I mean, personalizing is a classic example. Why do I take it so personally? And you can't always make sense of the past, but you can deal with it in the present. Okay, how can I not react personally? So then we look at depersonalizing because what you're telling yourself, what you're saying is a reflection of your beliefs and values, and that means about you and the other person. So this is where I then can help them correct those beliefs and values and when they take it personally, learn not to. It's a real statement. Interesting. Yeah, how you bring that into the present and helping them to manage it in a different way, even though something in the past meant that they didn't get what they needed, and so they are emotionally reacting, but you're helping them to consciously manage that in the present. Yeah, in the present. But what happens when you do that, they start to link in with what happened in the past without me asking them. And they go, oh, I can remember when, and that means the brain is now stabilized. It's got off of that emotional brain that now has their reasoning or thinking brain, which is a left brain, right brain balance. They can then make sense of it. And that's when their conscious mind can bring up a memory. Yeah, and I guess the more that the brain balances, if you will, in that sense, the more they will get that emotional stability and ability to cope whatever is coming the way. Yes, they do. And unfortunately, when I've worked with people, particularly when I was in the psychiatric clinic, I was teaching them to be healthy, and they'd go home. And often a family wanted them in the clinic to learn and to get well, but as they got well, the family often didn't like it because now they had to respect new boundaries. They couldn't control there. So it's interesting. They then have to educate the family on what they like now and how they can work together. It's interesting. Very interesting how the power plays. Just go. Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about how those dynamics work, with the different power exertions. Yes. Well, we have a power triangle that is very well known, and we've got it on the slide there, and there are three dynamics. We've got the persecutor, and that persecutor is the controller. And as far as they're concerned, they're OK. Everyone else isn't OK, and they have to take control. And it's for them to protect themselves, but they become authoritarian. They demand obedience. And if not, what happens? You get punished, or you get rejected. And they like to have power over others. And this is where, when you look at that, often people look at narcissism and a narcissist. Now, you don't have to have a narcissistic personality to be narcissistic. Anything that is self-focused, self-serving is narcissism. So once I'm going, it's all about me. I'm thinking in terms of narcissism. But the perpetrator, the person who's accusing and controlling is highly narcissistic. It's all about them. They cannot have empathy. They cannot take into account what the other person's doing. So if we come back to that power triangle, we also have the victim. And I can remember times I felt like the victim. And you start to think, I'm not OK. They're OK. And you blame yourself. And the victim is immobilized. They shut down. And they actually, it's like having a sign on your head that says I'm a victim. And the persecutor or the perpetrator will read that in their verbals and non-verbals and know that they're vulnerable and they need help and they can help them. And they feel empowered when they help the victim. But once the victim starts to grow and no longer is the victim, then that is World War III and that relationship because that means they want an equal relationship. And the perpetrator, the persecutor wants them to be submissive. So this is where you get the power plays happening. Now, the third dynamic in that relationship is the rescuer who thinks they're OK, but they're really not OK and others aren't OK. Because if things don't go well, and for example, the persecutor is controlling or has a need or the victim is a classic. The rescuer will pick on the victim because they think everyone needs their help and they need to be needed, right? They're insecure. So they become overly helpful and in turn control the other person. And then they feel used. They set themselves up to help everyone, but then they feel used and abused. So again, you have these unhealthy dynamics. And the persecutor will be attracted to either or and work with them. Yeah, that's very interesting because in each of those situations, you can see how it stems back to an inner insecurity. And if that is fixed and addressed properly, then people wouldn't have the same drive to control in those various different expressive ways. Now, in all of those three modes, people can change. The person who's the controller can change, the person who's the victim and the rescuer. I used to be a rescuer. I was brought up by a mother to rescue. Animals to start with and then you rescue people. And therefore, I would try and rescue people who didn't want to be rescued or could, weren't going to change. So that set myself up then for relationship problems. And then you feel the victim. You can see how those dynamics work. Or we can switch roles. We can become the controller. Or the rescuer can be a controller. So it's not like you've got three individuals and nothing changes. We can actually switch those roles in a relationship. Yeah, well, that's very interesting. And I can appreciate in your case that even in your profession, you would have had to really learn to fly this because the rescuer just comes straight to mind with what you're doing helping people. Which obviously, there's everything noble about that. But as you say, the boundaries are really critical to be able to manage that. I have to have good boundaries with clients. Or I'm just perpetrating what they've already been in. Yeah. If I let them be. So this is where the education, what we call psychoeducation, I give that model to them and say, right, where are you in the model? Same with past, present and future. So that gives the brain a framework. And if they're not sure, we talk about it and look at what are their dynamics, what happens in relationships and they go, oh, I'm the victim. So they don't want to be. So this is where we then do the work to help them not to be the victim or the controller to recognize, I'm trying to have control here. It isn't working. Usually I get the victim and the rescuer. I don't. A lot of controllers believe they're okay. And they don't necessarily want to come and change. So what is fundamentally happening here with these different power plays? Like if someone is actually doing something that is very controlling or they're going into an overly submissive way, like what kind of rights are being mismanaged there to make it then hurt the person's emotions? Okay. All our rights are being violated. And by rights I don't mean a belief that is rigid. We have the right, I think, to be treated respectfully. We have the right to be nurtured and cared for by friends. We've got friendship rights or marital rights or relationship rights. So all those rights come into it. And this again, from a Christian perspective, God is a God of love and nurturing. And if we connect with Him, then we have healthy rights, basically. We can value ourselves. And that is another relationship. Our relationship with God is crucial. Yes. But there is a third model we can look at. It's a circle. So I know that we can have a look at that. It might help. So what made of that's desire for power and control? And we can see there's power and control on the outer circle. And this is where the person who wants control is very entitled. They have distorted thinking. They believe they're okay when they're not okay. They believe that they have the right to take control, whether it be in a work environment, friendship, personal relationships. They have these rights. And sometimes they're not always obvious, but they might do it underhandedly. Plot and plan and do it that way. But also it's based on fear. Right. So if you put fear into the person who's the problem, then they can have control. But they work from fear. What might their fear be if they lose power? If you think about it, they're not good enough. They're not worthy that if they lose control, they just fall apart when they lose control. Because they're entitlement. That's very interesting, especially when we consider back to what we looked at in the previous session about how many of these, I guess, more unhealthy relationship behaviors develop right back from childhood where a need has not been met. Like when we look at the entitlement and fear, I can imagine that for a baby who's helpless, if they don't get the care that they deserve and they need, which they are entitled to, they would feel all of those things. Fear. Who's going to care for me? I can't care for myself. I'm thinking this, but they're emotional. That's too emotional. Yeah. And that's the emotion that comes into the present. You'll see that personality develop, even if a baby, because we inherit about 50% of our personality and then it develops based on our models and experiences. But that part of that child, some children have a very strong will as part of it. And what they will do is express that so they'll kick and scream and carry on until they get the attention they need. Yes. Now, the other side of it is some children are born. They're very sensitive. They're more submissive. So if their needs aren't being met, they go into submissive mode because they don't know how to express. It's the same for adults in the present. How many people go to submissive? How many people go to kicking and screaming? You know, we have tantrum children. We've got tantrum adults. Yes. No, it's amazing how those things play out in different ways. And I really appreciate how you were able to trace it right back from the beginning because it just makes sense. And I think it helps us, like if we see those patterns of behavior in ourselves or in others, just to recognize that, like, give people a bit of slack if they're treating others that way because you think, what happened to them? Yes. What have they lacked? And maybe there's a way that that can be addressed. Well, there is. You can talk to the person and find out more about the history. I've done that before. But even with our parents, and if we've had parental control and we've been damaged by it, finding out what was life like for them when they were growing up? What was life like when you were conceived and when you were born? And that gives you a lot of information about this is why they parented me the way they did. And that helped me to resolve a lot of anger issues I had with my mother and to understand my father more. And so before they passed away, I actually spent time with them finding out that I had an auntie who also filled me in on things. So we can go to other people, but try if you can. Look at a history, family history for your parents and see what life was like for them because that will help you to resolve any issues you have with your parents. Because of what life was like when you were growing up. You can have empathy for them. Yes. And I looked at my mother, she had a lot of anger. And when I looked at coming through a war and a depression and deprivation and poverty, I thought no wonder she was an angry person. And it gave me empathy. Even though the anger got projected at me for different things, but I realized why. Therefore it wasn't so personal. We talked about depersonalizing. Yes. I had empathy for her. I really felt for her. I thought that poor mother of mine, she had an awful time, far worse than I ever did. So it helps you to put it in perspective in the present. And that means we're healing from the past because we're no longer going over and over what happened in our childhood and how awful it was. Yes. That's right. Yes. So that's really interesting. And I guess what I was curious about is how can they actually address, like if you've recognized that you've got that fear inside, what are the approaches for helping to remedy that in the present? You mean your own fear? Yes. I find getting people to write things out because understanding their beliefs and values, because fear is future projection that creates anxiety. What are they afraid of? So getting them to actually look at the fear and where it's coming from, they might remember things from the past, but where is it in the present? So you take a present event and people can do this if they even if they're not seeing a psychologist, they can actually journal it, write it down. Why am I so fearful? Ask a question. Yeah. When the conscious mind asks a question, like why am I so afraid? Because I was brought up with fear as well. And the brain will give you the answer eventually. I'll be doing something like, oh, I remember that now. No wonder I was fearful. So we can do some work ourselves and I find journaling at writing, even just point for them. Let's have a list of things I've been afraid of or I am afraid of. And have a look at do they match? Do they correlate? How can I make sense of them? And if so, why am I so fearful? And listen to the language. What do you tell yourself? Oh, this is terrible. I'll never manage. I think I'm awful. These messages we grow up with, we're programmed with, and often they're parental messages, because I don't tell you how to have fear, but their expression is a fear. I mean, I got things like, oh, what will people think of you when you go out dressed like that? So there's a fear message I then have to take into account. And what if I'm seeing a number of people and some might like what I wear and some might? And what do I do with that one? Yes. It instills fear. So I've had to learn to go, no, just dress for yourself to look nice for that event. And it doesn't matter what people think anymore. I'm doing the right thing. I'm not doing anything offensive. So you start to change yourself dialogue, and you start to change your beliefs and values around that fear. We address the fear. And there's a thing, a feel of fear and do it anyway. We've got to sit with the fear. It's in the body, not just in the mind. Yeah, because then you'll be actually starting to reprogram your brain and putting new pathways of new thought patterns to replace that old fear pathway. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, interesting and very helpful to consider that. So it's both awareness as well as analyzing and then replacing with more correct thinking. Yes, change the thinking because the thinking feeds the emotions. Instead of the emotions feeding the thinking, use the thinking to change the emotion. Very, very interesting. Now, what about, I just have one more question, and that is obviously these power things can be things that we deal with internally. But is there a situation where within a relationship there may be things going on that are affecting the power play? Like, yeah, how do we deal with some of those things that are external? Yeah, external events, we still have to address and see while we're reacting the way we are. And this is where, again, the boundaries come in. So there's an external event that's a trigger for you doing your own work on it. Why am I reacting to that? Is it if it's another person, what are they doing? And then look at how can I let the person know that that is a trigger for me? And we're going to look at that more as we go through the next two sessions. Very good. They're very nice. Yeah, so I can see that in this process there's a lot of reflection that really has to happen and just take the time out to consider what's going on in order to really understand and get to the bottom of it. Which, thankfully, there are ways and means that that can be done. Yes. Yeah, so that's a real blessing. All right, well, very much. We thank you so much for joining us on the program today. I look forward to the next couple of sessions where we unpack this even further. And, yeah, we look forward to that time. We've been discussing power and control in relationships with health psychologist Jenifer Skues. And in the next episode, we'll talk about this further and consider how controlling relationships actually impact us. So stay with us for that. If you have questions or comments about this program or if there's a topic you would like us to discuss, contact us on [email protected] and remember to shape your lifestyle as medicine. You've been listening to your lifestyle as medicine, a production of 3ABN Australia television.