Relationship Recovery Tool Kit - YLAM240031

SPEAKER 1 This program presents ways to optimise health and well-being. When considering lifestyle changes, please consult with your healthcare provider to ensure they are suitable for you. SPEAKER 2 Hello and welcome, I'm Kaysie Vokurka. Ronald Reagan stated that we will never recognise the true value of our own lives until we affirm the value in the life of others. Yes, recognising the incredible value of every human being is a key part of restoring relationships. Stay tuned as we discuss this and more tools for recovering relationships. SPEAKER 1 This is yous Lifestyle as Medicine, a production of 3ABN Australia Television. SPEAKER 2 It's wonderful to have you with us on this program where we explore ways that you can shape your lifestyle as medicine. In the last few programs we've been talking about conflict and control in relationships and how this affects us. Today we'll talk about some practical skills and strategies that are vital for recovering relationships that have become unhealthy. Health Psychologist Jenifer Skues is here to lead us through this topic. Thank you Jenifer for joining us once again. SPEAKER 1 Thanks very much Kaysie. SPEAKER 2 Yes, now it's very interesting. Relationships are something that can very easily deteriorate it seems, and especially these days. And you're dealing with this all of the time. And I'm wondering from your experience and expertise, what do we need to understand in order to grow healthy relationships? SPEAKER 1 Well, I think we need to first know that we have a problem instead of blaming the other person. So coming back to what they did was wrong, but how we respond can be wrong. So it's taking charge of ourselves and having a look at what we can do. And I've had to do this journey. and even now, if I'm tired or a bit flat in mood or whatever, I can be irritable, I can react to people, but if we own it, and as you said, value the other person, they're of great value to me, that's why I'm in a relationship, and I then need to own my part in it as well. So seeing it as a two-way relationship. I think also understanding that we can change anything we want to at any time, because the brain changes and grows grows until the day we die, your brain will be growing, making new cells we can use. Okay? It's the trick is looking at what do I need to change and how can I change it? And this is where it's a personal journey of identifying and skills has to do a lot with it. We were, you know, I say we were dragged up, we weren't necessarily trained in relationship skills. And that's It's part of the culture, it's part of what our parents went through, the times they're in. So it's not about blaming, it's about going, okay, well this is where I've got in my life and we've looked at timelines and how stressful it is. So this is about what can I do to change it? And that is the challenge. SPEAKER 2 Yeah, so it really first starts with having an open mind and readiness to change and be willing to grow and look for the gaps that may have been in our training or upbringing where we haven't quite gained all the skills we could have to help the relationship thrive. SPEAKER 1 Absolutely. So this is about learning and what skills do we need? And there are several areas of skills that are totally beneficial to recovering from controlling relationships and to then make it to stand up, to be able to not be controlled by them. SPEAKER 2 Yes. SPEAKER 1 And this depends on how controlling the person who's in control is. If they are physically aggressive, I suggest that people really rethink why they're in the relationship because the fear is if they now use the skills I'm teaching, they might get hit. They might be more abused because that abuser wants control. So it comes back to are two people in a relationship willing to work at it? And if not, what can that person do? depending on the nature of the relationship. If it's things like emotional blackmail or guilt or things like that, it's much easier to set boundaries. But we've got to identify the dynamics. What is it that is controlling me? And that's where I'll help people do that. But often people know. They come and say, oh, I always feel so guilty and they tell me off and this and that. So we've already got things to work with. This is the personal inventory. What are my relationships like? How do they affect me mentally, emotionally, even physically and spiritually? And do a bit of a stock take and then have a look at how can I apply the skills that we're going to talk about here. SPEAKER 2 Yeah, that's a very, I think, valuable and important reference point to just think through and say, okay, let's get ourselves in this mindset before launching into looking at how that we can improve our relationships. I'm sure even the best relationships, there might be ways that we can improve it even that much more to make it more rewarding and fulfilling. Definitely. SPEAKER 1 Yeah, absolutely. And there are always going to be glitches in any relationship that have to be dealt with. But it's like when we're in a relationship, we do everything we know, but we don't know everything to do. SPEAKER 2 Yes, that's so true, isn't it? SPEAKER 1 It's just about knowing what else I can do now to improve my relationship. SPEAKER 2 Yeah. SPEAKER 1 Yeah, and personally, and people have problems with friendships. If we're not functioning well, as I said before, we're going to attract the wrong people in our life. Either we're controllers and we look for submissive people, people we can control, or vice versa. We have no control and therefore we find someone who was going to control our life. Initially you often think they're strong people, but actually they're controllers. It's not until it's further down the track the person feels controlled. So this is about how can I do that? We have looked at some of these strategies before in probably, I think, in our last one we did on relationships, but I'm going to revisit it more just to give the overview of boundaries, because a boundary sets a limit. So when you're feeling unsafe, what are the limits? What is it what's happening here? Am I letting that person in the door and I'm not putting up that boundary and therefore or they do walk all over me or they control me. Or is it that I've got a brick wall up now and I just keep everyone out? So they're the extremes. So this is about how can I find the balance and that means you have to have a voice and be able to do it. One of the most important things is with boundaries, see it as a fence and a gate. What's your fence and gate like? And how can you open the gate, let people in? keep them out if you need to. But it is three prongs to it. And one is, what are they doing? Their behaviour. Identify their behaviour. How's it affecting me? And what would I like them to be like? What would I prefer? Because when you do that, and you don't always have to use all three aspects, you can just point out the behaviour and go, oh yeah, I know I do that, and they'll change. But someone who's a real up-their-controller will deny it or put it back onto you. Their defences kick in. But you do that, and you know, so you then back off. So it is a skill. Don't go away defeated if you try to set a boundary and it doesn't work. Go away and learn from it. And then if you do set a healthy boundary, and that's looking at the limits, what you want them to do, and they keep controlling or they keep ignoring your boundary, then what you have to do is give a consequence. a fair consequence, not one that you're not going to keep. I mean, this is children are prime examples. Say you get a child who likes to leave their clothes lying around in the bedroom and after a while their bedroom looks a bit like a tip and they don't put anything in the wash and a lot of parents come with that one. And that you're going to set a boundary. So you have to maybe discuss it with the child, let them know the problem and what you're expecting, but be realistic. you know, I know, you know, I will help you initially clean up your room, but then I would like you to keep it clean and let's have a look where you have to put everything. Now, if they still ignore that and they keep just dumping stuff, it can be school bags, lunch bags, you know, you name it, their room becomes a bit of a dump, then there has to be a consequence. And when I suggest to parents, because this is about their relationship, is, okay, if you do that again and you don't clean it up, I'll be taking everything that's yours, or I won't be washing anything you're going to have to wear dirty clothes, or if it's all the toys, I'm going to put them in a garbage bag and take them away until you're ready to clean up. So you've got to set a fair consequence. And I'm giving that one because it's a good example. It's harder with adults. I have done things like where I've removed something if they ignore me. So it's finding a fair consequence and discuss it with the person. if it's a fair enough thing. But you're not going to set a consequence with someone or even a boundary that is someone who's quite violent. And we do have those extremes. So then you have to think about it differently. The boundary has to be to protect myself. SPEAKER 2 Yes. Yes. SPEAKER 1 And you've tried to resolve things and it doesn't work and you end up worse off. So you then have to work out what am I going to do? this is an awful relationship and often then the woman will leave. And it is world war, unfortunately. But that again is the extreme end. I find most relationships use a lot, as you said, you can do to bring about a happier, more open relationship. And I do have a lot of people come to me, both parties or one or the other, that they work on and boundary setting is the first thing. Now, go on, you want to say something? SPEAKER 2 So I was just thinking about this, when you go through setting the boundaries, what is it that would be the first thing that people would, I guess, need to contemplate in the relationship to know where to start? Because obviously it's very... Like you could go real hard, you could go really light. How do you figure that out? SPEAKER 1 Okay, I suggest you start with something small, something that's not going to cause World War III. It might be something that happens in the kitchen. It might be leaving the door open, letting the flies in, requests that they close the door, things like that. And then if it doesn't happen, look at a fair consequence. SPEAKER 2 Yeah, okay, so you're basically giving the signal to the other party that you're not gonna let them walk over you on this. And you're gonna just give that message a little bit first and then that doesn't get through somehow, it might get a bit louder in terms of the message. SPEAKER 1 You can be a bit firmer and say, Look, I've already asked you this, what's the problem? Question them, ask a question. Is it too hard for you to put your dirty dishes in the sink? I mean, they're simple things. And what is the problem here? And then you have to deal with it. People think, oh, she won't do anything or he won't do anything, he never does. So they ignore the boundary. And that's where you have to then go the next step. It is a skill. SPEAKER 2 It's a skill. And because it's a skill, like some people, I think, would find it very hard to even think and initiate the step of setting a boundary. Like, how does a person understand what they have to do to get to the point of actually setting a boundary? Like, What kind of frame of mind do they need? What kind of skills and approaches would people have? Because either people will just allow themselves to be walked over, or they'll do that for a while and then get so fed up they blow their top about it because it's a lot of brain. Yeah, because they haven't managed it at the right point. SPEAKER 1 I think if it's too hard at home, and maybe it's easier if you've got children or maybe with a friend, pick something that you want to express, practise it, work out what words you if they said that to me, how would I cope? Do I need to modify it? And this is where maybe getting some help to do it. There's lots of stuff online, on YouTube, you can go and get some counseling, particularly if you're the submissive person. Or you don't know how. There's lots of good books. So there's lots of things you can do. And I find the Bible gives you lots of information about healthy relationships. Jesus was our model. And so I find in having come back to the Bible in my life that I've learned a lot more about relationships, which with love and fairness and there's lots of good things we can do. But there are actually three modes we work in to set a, to try and set a boundary, you need to be what is called assertive. And I don't know, you probably, everyone seems to know the word. A lot of people think assertion is aggression and it's not. Being assertive is being considering the other person's needs and respecting them. So when I'm assertive, I show respect. And then I value myself. I set the boundaries with myself assertively instead of going, oh no, it's simple things like getting enough sleep, going to bed at night, it's easy, and I do this stay up later and later and then I'm tired. I've had to set limits with myself. It's my own boundary and be assertive because I know it's good for me. I know I function better. So it's sort of like I have this thing I go through. If not, I beat myself up, get aggressive if I don't do it, or I go into submission and keep getting late and late and then I'm paying the consequence. And that's just a simple thing, but it's the same in relationships. So I know we have a slide with an overview of those three. So let's have a look and we won't have time to go through all of it, but we can look at it. So we've got three main modes, passive, assertive, aggressive. Right. Assertiveness is in that middle track and as it says, you express feelings and thoughts honestly, speak for yourself, not for everyone else. Right. You're more relaxed when you do it. You're willing to listen, communication, you show respect, you build confidence. in doing that, to have that self-control. And you will feel respected if you do this the right way and have good relationships. And that's where you can achieve goals. Self-respect is negotiated. Now if you're passive, you avoid all that. You don't express your thoughts and feelings, you've got hidden meanings, blank expression, that blank look, we slump, we avoid eye contact. So you can see how that goes. And then if, as you said, If we're too passive, we don't go assertive, we go aggressive. So then we verbalise aggression or aggressively, and that's when we label people, we dress them down, we express what we think too brutally. We're not tactful, whereas assertiveness we're tactful. It might be true, but it's the way we do it. And usually it's a raised tense voice, we're often rigid, And we again dominate, humiliate the person. Aggression is about control. It's the most powerful control. Because if someone is angry and aggressive, what you can do if you're assertive, and I've done this and it works well, is say, I can see you're angry. What are you angry about? So you're actually addressing that the person is angry before they show aggression. and some people say, oh, I'm angry because today it worked, and it's not what you think. It's not you. So checking out, or if they are aggressive, an assertive thing to do would be to say, look, this is getting too heated for me. I'm going to go and calm down. I'd like you to go and go for a walk or whatever, and they might have an agreement that if it gets too heated in the relationship, they'll spend time apart. And I had one couple who had a signal, and the signal was Geronimo. So if they were feeling uncomfortable and that they were being controlled, it was Geronimo, and both of them would go to their corner basically. And it worked really well. They resolved things, and then they'd calm down, come back and look at it. So it's a team effort. You have to have two people want to do it, and that's where then the other extreme is the person doesn't want to do it. you know, they want to have control and it doesn't matter what you do, you'll be browbeaten. If you're assertive, they'll call you aggressive and they will call you a liar, they'll be in denial. So there are some relationships and I've had a few like that, particularly with female friends from way back who really, I couldn't continue the relationship, it just got too much for both of us and I would bottle it up, I'd go submissive and then something would happen and I'd explode. And then they got the brunt of it. So I wasn't healthy in that. And then finally I could apologize and express it. But there's only so often you can do that. If they don't want to change or they don't like the change you've made, because I changed. I changed when I became a psychologist in how I function, when I became a Christian. And not all my friends like that. Or they expected a lot of me because of those roles. And I'm human, you know, like everyone else, I have my ups and downs. and that's where the physiology comes in, whether we sleep well, whether our blood sugars are balanced. That's a whole topic on itself. I do a whole thing on food and mood because that's what it takes. We need that physiological and mind balance to be able to do this assertively. SPEAKER 2 Yeah, and it's very interesting looking at those with the chart with the assertive, the passive aggressive how that It seems like key values and principles are being worked in with the assertive mode because I noticed the word respect in there, self-confidence, value and respect for others, honesty, that's another one there, you know, self-control. Like these are all key principles, moral principles even, that are being worked into that mode of assertiveness. And I'm just wondering how much Learning and being very familiar with those principles may help with developing that ability to be appropriately assertive in relationships. SPEAKER 1 Well, I think this is where being that bit of humility, learning to forgive people regardless of who started or who, you know, and I find if someone does something and I react, instead of attacking them, I own my reaction and go, I'm really sorry I reacted that way. And then they go, oh, well, I used to get at home, oh, well, I started it. And then we can negotiate, we can talk and diffuse the bomb. So I think having that is really important. It's not being passive, it's being honest. And this is where we need to set a goal, and that's why I'm encouraging people, if you're not confident, start small, build confidence, start with something little, or even rehearse it. So when they do something that is uncomfortable for you, and you don't know what to say or how to say it, once you work it out, rehearse it in your head, go over it. Now, if they do that again, this is what I need to say. And keep doing it until you feel confident and you'll feel you program it in the brain and something will happen again and you can say it. So there are different tools. SPEAKER 2 Yeah, that's very useful, especially I think, because people would find it is certainly sometimes quite daunting to to even make the smallest move to stand up for themselves because they've been so accustomed to maybe being bratty. Yeah, exactly. And so I like that approach of just saying, okay, what little step can you take and then build on it so you can put that skill and the self-confidence and just that ability. SPEAKER 1 And that's having the toolkit. Now, if we don't do this, it affects our value and worth. and this is where we go into decline. We don't value ourself, we can't value other people, and we compare with others constantly, and we're never good enough. And that means we won't have confidence to do this, because we're not good enough to do it or whatever. And there are terms that we hear now, self-worth and self-esteem. But if we're not careful, it can be too much focused on self, so I look at it as worth and esteem. The world talks about how having self-esteem or self-worth and just tell yourself you're a lovely person, you're a good person, and it doesn't work that way. You have to believe it. You have to believe, yes, I messed up and that doesn't feel good, but I know I can do it the right way and you start to value yourself. So it's being able to do that. And I think we've got a slide there for those modes as well. So the worldly perspective looks at self in it, as I said, and it gives three dynamics. Self-esteem is superior, equal or inferior. We want to be equal, but does that mean that it's healthy? We need to be equal with the person and see them as an equal. And that again is biblically based. But often we go superior and inferior. You feel inferior, you're not good enough, you're lesser than, you're a lower rank. The controller will want to make you feel inferior. they want to be superior. So what we need to do is to address the superiority and that's where the boundaries come into it. How can you let them know that they're intimidating you or they're acting as a superior? And this is where we then go from self-esteem. Self-esteem is usually based on comparing with others. Self-worth or the worth is about valuing our self. So if we, there it is, confidence in personal value and worth as an individual and about it depends on self-esteem. So if I'm not esteemed, well, I'm not worth anything. And that is how the world sees it. But if you go to the Christian perspective, we're meant to have value and esteem. We're meant to have esteem and worth. Jesus esteems us highly or he wouldn't have come and died on the cross for us. SPEAKER 2 Yes. SPEAKER 1 He loves and respects us. We need to appreciate and respect ourself. And if we do the wrong thing, this is where we, if we go and apologize, we do that sort of thing, our esteem improves again. But we don't compare ourself to other people. Right? And then the worth comes from, I know I don't feel worthy because of my old nature, I never feel worthy at times, but I know Christ values me. He makes me feel worth, and I know I am worthy. Hence, I can do the work I do, work on relationships, because Christ makes us worthy, and God esteems us as worthy. So this is where we can work with this, and setting the boundaries, understanding how to be assertive versus passive and aggressive, and putting things in place, starting small, building as we go. SPEAKER 2 Yeah, I really like that breakdown of the difference between the idea of self-esteem and just esteem, because it really showed how when you have the esteem from a Christian's perspective, it's solid. Like, it's not going to change depending on your own feelings or perspectives or what others say about you. That's it. constant. So that's something we can depend on regardless of the ups and downs of life. SPEAKER 1 That's right. SPEAKER 2 And it will carry us through. SPEAKER 1 It's how God sees me that's vital. Because if He esteems me and He gives me worth and value, the Godhead does. So that means if someone puts me down and I've done the wrong thing, I can own it, apologize and resolve it. We have a healing. SPEAKER 2 Yes. Right? SPEAKER 1 Because I know my esteem and my value is intact. SPEAKER 2 Mm-. SPEAKER 1 Which is part of what you said. So that's highly valuable. There's a very good little snippet by a man by the name of Toby Mac. He's a Christian man, he's a musician, and I often see his postings on Facebook. And he has a saying, and I know we've got it there. He says, Our self-esteem comes from who we are before God, not what we do before men. And I think that puts it in a nutshell. And I'd say our esteem, he sort of looks at self-esteem because that's the usual term, but that's fine. He means our esteem. So it's remembering God values us. He loves us. And then we also, there was a very good Bible verse that we're looking at, and there's so many good Bible verses. This is in Jeremiah. 31:3, it says, the Lord has appeared of old to me, saying, Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love. How secure is that? Therefore, with loving kindness I have drawn you. So love draws you. If someone loves you, you're drawn to them. And God loves us and draws us to Him. So that will help us set boundaries and heal relationships and do all of it. SPEAKER 2 Absolutely, and I like how that verse points out that it's His love is everlasting. There's no end. SPEAKER 1 There is no end. SPEAKER 2 It's constant. It's always there for us and that's something that can give us so much stability in our own self. SPEAKER 1 There's no I love you if. I love you constantly, everlastingly. It's wonderful. SPEAKER 2 Yeah, yeah, such a blessing. Well, thank you so much, Jenifer, for sharing all of those helpful tips and strategies. for helping to restore and even enhance good relationships. And I'm sure our listeners will have been blessed by that. Thank you so much for sharing. We've been discussing tools for recovering relationships with health psychologist Jenifer Skues. I trust that these programs have helped you recognize and understand some of the factors at play in relationships and how these can be managed to protect your health and well-being. If you have questions or comments about this program, Contact us on [email protected] and remember to shape your lifestyle as medicine. SPEAKER A You've been listening to Your Lifestyle as Medicine, a production of 3ABN Australia television.